How Vulnerability and Intimacy Create Connection on Camera With Kevin Newman

Veteran national news anchor Kevin Newman reveals how to create genuine intimacy on camera. Drawing from his extensive experience at the helm of top broadcasts in both Canada and the United States, Kevin shares practical strategies for building deep connections with your audience. You’ll learn how to frame stories effectively, overcome camera jitters, and centre yourself before going live. Kevin also dives into how vulnerability enhances communication and offers insights into the evolving role of storytelling in the digital age. Whether you’re an entrepreneur or a content creator, Kevin’s advice will help you communicate with authenticity and impact.

Keywords
Kevin Newman, news anchor, journalism, communication, storytelling, camera confident, framing stories, building community, vulnerability, social media, entrepreneurship, authenticity

Key Takeaways

• Framing stories is essential for building community and effective communication.
• Being camera confident requires strategies for centering oneself and focusing on the message.
• Communication is an act of intimacy that requires vulnerability and authenticity.
• Social media has changed the landscape of communication, requiring a focus on creativity and understanding of different platforms.
• Storytelling is still crucial in a digital age, allowing for deeper connections with audiences.
• Entrepreneurs should believe in themselves, communicate their passion, and be willing to take risks.

Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Background
08:56 Communication as an Act of Intimacy
19:22 The Impact of Social Media on Communication
27:03 The Changing Landscape of Media
38:42 Believe in Yourself: Communication Tips for Entrepreneurs

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Transcript

Shirlee Engel (00:01.268)
I am beyond thrilled to talk to this guest today on the Camera Confident podcast, Kevin Newman, one of my mentors in the journalismsm world and one of the most well -known anchors in Canada as far as news is concerned. I'm gonna let Kevin introduce himself. Kevin, thank you so much for joining me on the Camera Confident podcast. I can't believe I'm talking to you.

Kevin Newman (00:23.746)
do you look the same and I don't? Why do you look the same and I don't?

Shirlee Engel (00:28.133)
you're too kind, you're too kind. It's lighting and makeup, remember?

Kevin Newman (00:32.738)
Yes, I miss it so much.

Shirlee Engel (00:34.484)
Yeah, yeah. So this is probably not something you were asked as a journalist because you were the one asking the questions. But the first question I always ask guests is give us your elevator pitch. People are listening and watching from all over the world. Who is Kevin Newman?

Kevin Newman (00:50.26)
who is Kevin Newman? well, he's currently a retired grandfather. For many, many years. I was the guy who would frame the stories of our time. And sometimes that meant framing the stories that others were telling. And sometimes I was the person doing the framing, but in a world and elevator pitches are shorter than this. So take the first part of that, but in a world that is getting incredibly complicated and more dangerous.

The people who can frame stories are the ones who can punch through and build community and communication, I think.

Shirlee Engel (01:29.856)
Mm -hmm. And you're being very humble, Kevin. I mean, you were the anchor of, you know, one of the top national newscasts in Canada. You also worked on Good Morning America in the United States. I mean, you've had a long and storied career in journalism, which involved a lot of transformation. And I think a lot of people don't realize that. They think, you're a news anchor. It doesn't really matter where you work. You're you know, you you tell the news. But it's so much more than that.

So I guess I wanted to just quickly give listeners and viewers an overview of your journey. How did you become a storyteller and why did you become a storyteller?

Kevin Newman (02:08.418)
Well, I grew up in suburban Toronto, went to high school, went to Western. I was a bit of a news junkie at a very young age. I was dialed into current events for some reason, a bit of a news nerd, if you like. And I think that I watched the moon landing and I watched all those, this is how old I am, and I watched all those Apollo moon shots when I was a kid.

And I thought, wow, that's cool. Those are astronauts. They're on top of rockets. But the job I thought was cooler was Walter Cronkite's, who was an anchor of the CBS Evening News and the guy who could be as close as possible to the action wherever the action was. So Walter was at Cape Canaveral. He was in Washington. He was in Vietnam. I thought that's got to be the coolest job because he gets to see his time with his own eyes.

and he gets to interpret it through his eyes to others. And I think that's the thing that triggered my curiosity and developed my curiosity through my life. So I worked in campus radio at Western, started up the news department there. I immediately went into a newsroom in Toronto with a BA and earned $11 ,000 a year making coffee. And then I moved to

Parliament Hill with global television at the time and then just kept bouncing around. mean, the transitions weren't only, you know, from city to city. They were from country to country. I lived in the United States and worked for ABC News for a decade. But I think one of the skills that journalists develop is that ability to cope in a new situation, because it's not just, you know, moving where your family moves, but you could be thrown into Poland and have to understand what's going on.

when a revolution is underway. Or you can be thrown into Gaza and have to be able to cope with people around you not welcoming you in that environment. So your ability to adapt and to build trust quickly, I think is vital to being a success in journalism.

Shirlee Engel (04:22.838)
Mm -hmm. I have to ask you, were you always camera confident?

Kevin Newman (04:28.17)
No, no, was no and I don't think I ever was. would even until the very end of my career, which was at an investigative show W five in Canada, I would beat myself up right after I had done whatever I did. And then I would have to go after a little period of the beating up and then I'd have to calm myself down and then I'd have to go watch it. And when I watched it, it was always a little bit better than it felt in my head.

And so that would calm me down and then I could move on and do the next thing. But I never, I always had stage fright. I always had, I always had the feeling that I was not performing well. I always hated the feeling of being judged as you know, most human beings do. And when a lens is at you and in my case, you know, 26 million people in America used to watch me on Good Morning America. And if you have a fear of being judged,

You have to have a relationship with that fear of being judged to be able to even, you know, do the work the next day. So, no, I was never, I was never confident. and, know, the best actors, the best musicians, anybody who has to do a performance will tell you that if you ever get confident and if you don't have those butterflies in your stomach, then you're not very good. You don't care enough.

Shirlee Engel (05:48.066)
Yeah, and I would agree with that because, you know, even later in my and I mean, my journalism career was a fraction of yours. But I remember times when I went live and my heart would start beating. And where does that come from? I've done this a zillion times and this would be just me and a camera in a studio. So it never showed with you, Kevin. But what were your strategies? Because a lot of people watching and listening are thinking,

national news anchor, millions of people, like he had, this is easy. So how did you make it look so easy? And what were some of your strategies maybe right before you went on to center yourself, to be able to really do that job, which came with such an immense responsibility to deliver sometimes and often some pretty hard news.

Kevin Newman (06:40.96)
Yeah, it took a while to develop that, I'll be honest. I mean, at times, I would play this little game of chicken with myself, would I swallow at the wrong time before the red light went on to take me live to whatever. And I would always worry I'm going to end up having to go when I'm in the middle of a swallow. there's like this two brain thing that happens, right? There's you performing, and then there's you watching you performing. And the danger is that you go to that

other place of you watching you performing because that's when you're not in the moment. You've detached yourself from that moment and you're more concerned about is my hair going like that? How did I just pronounce that? And there's this this this thing going on in your head that is not helpful. And so what I developed was a strategy to try to center myself right before that and just I would practice the launch of the first thing that I had to do because I had enough confidence.

to know that once I was launched and I had settled down a little bit, I'd be OK. I had enough faith in my abilities that I would be OK. But it was the launch. And it was that moment where they go now that I didn't want to choke. So I would rehearse the first answer a little bit so that I could rely on rehearsal to calm myself down in that first answer. But I also had to discipline myself at times to just go stop that.

It's not about how you look. It's not about how you're saying. It's what you're saying. Make that connection. Bring your bring your brain back to the center of what you're trying to share with people. And we could talk a little bit about what that means. But what are you trying to share with people and get back into that moment of communication because you just you just pulled out for a second and just made yourself anxious.

Shirlee Engel (08:29.926)
I love that. One of the things that I was most excited about was the topic that you wanted to talk about on the podcast today, which is communication as an act of intimacy. Can you explain it? Can you explain? mean, can you explain what that means? Because I'm not sure I understood it, but I'd love to hear what you mean by that. And one of the reasons it really resonated with me was because

Kevin Newman (08:43.286)
Sounds sexy, doesn't it?

Shirlee Engel (08:56.874)
So many people that I talk to about, you know, being on camera and telling your story, the biggest thing for them is making that connection, right, with that lens.

Kevin Newman (09:05.72)
Well, hard because it's through a lens. It's through machinery. It's not a human thing. And like you and I are pretending like we're talking to each other, but we're, you know, I'm looking at a green light and you're looking at another light. And because we've done it enough, it feels like connection and it has connection because we know each other personally too. But yeah, it took me a very long time to figure this out. And there were a couple of

tricks to it as well. But when you're trying to communicate something, you have to imagine the distance between yourself and the person receiving it. If you're working through technology as we are. So all too often, what people will do, well, they will speak as if they're speaking to a room full of people. So they think they have to fill the space. They think they have to command attention. When the truth is, when you're working in an environment like this, like,

We look like we're what? Two feet apart? So we have to communicate like we're two feet apart, right? And so you have to, in your mind, think, I know that I'm speaking to an auditorium. I know that I'm speaking to a room full of people that I have to impress. But I'm not going to imagine the room. I'm going to imagine the intimacy of having a conversation with only one person.

Shirlee Engel (10:07.982)
Mm

Kevin Newman (10:34.84)
And that one person isn't at the back of the room. That one person is sitting right here. And if you think about it, like the quieter I get and the more I struggle with my words, I'm sucking you into this conversation right now because I'm making you work to hear me and I'm making you a little bit uncomfortable what's going to come out of my mouth next. So we're having this kind of moment that is

kind of human through machines which are inhuman. And so that's one. have a bunch. But I think the key one is to imagine in your mind how far away that person is and don't believe that you need to dominate that space. You need to treat it like a conversation.

between two people that are sitting across from a table.

Shirlee Engel (11:37.56)
That's one thing I always loved about you as an anchor, as a news anchor, and for anyone watching or listening, if you've seen Kevin on the air over the years, you had this very quiet way of speaking. And I say quiet, it's not like the volume was fine, but it felt like the most conversational news person that I ever came across in my entire both career as a journalist.

and as a viewer. And there really was an art to the way that you delivered the news. And you talked about Walter Cronkite. I named my dog Cronkite after Walter Cronkite. So I'm like, when you said Cronkite, I was like, Cronkite. You had such a gift and still obviously have such a gift for communicating. You were reading a teleprompter, right? But you still... Okay, so talk to us about that because I'm...

Kevin Newman (12:13.082)
that's right. I forgot that.

Kevin Newman (12:27.202)
But they were largely my words or my words.

Shirlee Engel (12:32.344)
fascinated by how you managed to create that intimacy with millions of people when you were there was copy that was written and you had to hit those certain points. Tell us what was going on. How do you do that?

Kevin Newman (12:44.322)
Well, never read anything you're not familiar with because it's painfully obvious. Number one. Number two, never read anything that you have not at least edited and tried to change into your own syntax. So, you know, if you have a PR department, if you have somebody who's like come with a script to you and said, like, it's in the teleprompter, it's loaded, we're all ready to go. Tell them, stop. You did not engage me at the right point in this process.

You needed to engage me before we got to the point where I'm sitting down and having to deliver words that I've never seen before or that don't sound like me. Because quite often, what comes out of a committee, what comes out of someone else's mouth is not something that is going to authentically communicate. whenever I anchored, and this was true at every place that I worked in to various degrees, but I would always spend a lot of time on the script.

And I would spend a lot of time making it sound like people talk and me and more specifically the way that I talk. So if that means starting sentences with but okay, radically incorrect. You don't ever want to see that written in a press release, but that's the way people talk. And so you would you would make sure that that reflected that you would also you should also think about.

the essence of what you're trying to communicate and and and in your own mind make an emotional connection to that and that's a that's a big concept but how do I feel hearing this information right it's not neutral you may be outlining a new vision for the for the company you might be having to tell people the times are hard how

Am I emotionally connected to the words that I have had a hand in writing? And then remember that feeling so that when they come out of your mouth, you're not just reading, you're emoting and not over emoting. I'm not talking about, you know, and that happens sometimes. I've seen that with many executives that over emote so that it looks like acting, but you want to, you want to lift the words off the page, off a teleprompter or whatever, so that you, have

Kevin Newman (15:08.808)
an understanding of the emotional reaction that the words are likely to receive. So, you know, if it's hard news and, you know, too many CEOs I've seen do this is, you know, they read it in authentically, you know, tough times for the company. We really appreciate all you did and thank you for your service. But we have to make some difficult decisions as opposed to these are really tough times.

for this company and we've had to make some really impossible decisions that frankly really upset me. The difference between those two kinds of communication is pretty profound but the second time I got a chill up my spine, the first time I didn't give a shit.

Shirlee Engel (15:58.08)
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. And there's there's this fly that keeps flying into my screen as we're talking. Get out of the way. It almost went over the camera as we were talking, but that's the beauty of Riverside. I'll never forget this one example. When I was a reporter, there was a food poisoning crisis in Toronto, Listeria, and there was a major company at the center of this. And at the time, this was really revolutionary. He came up for a press conference.

Kevin Newman (16:02.306)
Yeah.

Shirlee Engel (16:27.154)
And he got really emotional about the people who died and then invited reporters into the plant as they were cleaning things up and like, it was the complete opposite of what any PR person would have said. It was like the anti -crisis communications approach. And I think they teach this in PR school now, but that company went on to continue to prosper. And a lot of people credit

Kevin Newman (16:47.713)
They do.

Shirlee Engel (16:55.074)
the way that that CEO handled that experience by being human. And I think a lot of business owners in particular, because we have a lot of entrepreneurs in the audience, think they need to put on this facade or they're worried about being vulnerable. They're worried about, you know, being human and having emotions about things. And if anything, especially in this day and age when connection is so fleeting on social media.

those connections are often the difference between actually connecting with someone on that level you're talking about and just having them scroll past.

Kevin Newman (17:32.172)
Yeah, there's a difference between a pitch session, which a lot of entrepreneurs have to do when they have like X number of time and you have to appear confident. You have to be up and you I mean that that's one kind of thing. But the other kind of communication where you're trying to hire people and make them want to work for you in an environment where you might not even see them. That's a different kind of thing. And that's not a pitch session.

That's a session on vulnerability, as you say. Like, here's our pain point in the company. And how do you think you might be able to help us with that? Do you have some ideas, some solutions and things? Because people, especially this generation, I the generation that you and I worked in journalism, there wasn't hardly any of this. But there are expectations that you are a human being and that there is a mission.

and that you want to be part of a community that is solving a problem. Right? And if you can't articulate that as an entrepreneur in a way that feels vulnerable or makes people feel valuable in that mission, then you're not going to attract good people. And you're not going to keep those people. If you think that the communication is only what happens in quarterly reports or the way a lot of the big corporations sort of deal with their

communication, you you know, and the way that they speak to shareholders shouldn't be the same way they speak to their, you know, their own employees. And yet it often is, then, you know, you're not, you're not getting everything you can out of people. And, and, you know, I, I think, being emotional, that's just being human, right? I mean, the, you know, the street doesn't want to hear you as being emotional if, if, if your share price is, you know, tanking.

You want to know that you're a bloody fiscal warrior. But fixing the problem, I'm willing to bet, is motivating human beings to want to fix the problem for you. And that requires an emotional core, a discussion of character. What are your values? I think all of that is necessary for anybody who's running a business to articulate, to know, and to challenge themselves on.

Shirlee Engel (19:51.759)
In this day and age, obviously, we, you you alluded to you and I, we worked in a very different time. It was before social media. I can't even believe I'm saying that. was even before, like I remember just getting on Twitter and like not a lot of people were on it. And but now in the day of social media, a lot of entrepreneurs are, you know, bypassing the media altogether and taking their messages to social media.

Kevin Newman (20:01.259)
Well, it was early days. We have pioneering.

Shirlee Engel (20:19.84)
And I know you're very active on, well, you have, you you're very active on social media and then sometimes you take your detoxes, which I know is important for all of us. But I'm very curious to hear your perspective on how you think the media of social media, so the Instagrams, the Facebooks, all the YouTubes, how that's changed communication for people who are trying to reach new audiences.

And what are some observations, some things that you see are different than maybe you would have been experiencing at the time that you were on air?

Kevin Newman (20:58.946)
Well, I think when we were on air, there was a hierarchy. And the people who made the creative choices tended to be the people who had longevity.

and the editorial choices as well. And so, I mean, one of the things that I tried to do when we worked together at Global National was I tried to drive down some of that creativity to people in the field and sort of spread it out. But I think in the era of social media, that has to be driven down to the absolute newest person that you got because they are communicating in ways that you and I or even, you know, even my daughter who's 34,

admits that she doesn't understand. So you have to invert your pyramid. If you imagine that the communication begins at the top and disseminates down, you've got to take the people who are at the bottom who used to do dissemination, got to put it at the top of it. I mean, you can still direct them, but how to communicate that, you know, through Twitch or through, you know, half of the ones that I don't even know anymore.

It's better that they understand the platform, that they understand what the mission is from you, but

You can't be saying like, I think we need more blue in that, you know, which is often what a lot of entrepreneurs get into is that kind of level of creativity. Because, mean, we just had a classic example in the US election of, you know, the very same people were doing Biden's social media campaign as we're doing Kamala Harris's. But something in a week took the people who were

Kevin Newman (22:39.436)
you know, putting out Biden's tweets and gave them the authenticity to say, Kamala's a brat, you know, and, and suddenly the people who understood what that meant and the power of that phrase were driving the choices.

of what we're being put out to reinforce the brand. So I think that's different. I think the creative impulse, the understanding of effective communication in social media is not a hierarchical thing at all. And that you need to find some very smart young people who understand your brand and understand what it is you're trying to do. And then you need to let them go.

and let them play and see what sticks and what works because it's only, you know, it's not like advertising, right? It's not like, you it's not like you place a buy in certain places to get range. It's what sticks and what goes viral. And that's a playground, right? And so you have to see it as a playground and give the kids a chance to play.

Shirlee Engel (23:45.186)
Yeah, and I'll give a shout out to a very famous online entrepreneur, Gary Vee. I'm listening to his book right now and he was talking about how social media has flipped traditional advertising on its head. You used to spend all this time in a boardroom figuring out what are they going to like? What are they going to respond to? Well, now it's the opposite. Now you go out there and you test it and you test it and you see how do the audiences respond?

How do they engage? What are they saying? maybe we should work that into it and you almost reverse engineer it. And you're literally building the plane as you fly it. Entrepreneurship is a lot like this, but it's a beautifully democratic process. Yeah.

Kevin Newman (24:25.176)
It's incredibly organic, too. You know, I looked at the buy that the Democrats, again, they're going to spend $380 million leading up to election day on media. And 120 of that 380 is in traditional media. That's newspapers, radio, television. The rest is all digital for the very first time. So if you're looking at a moment where digital is not just ascendant but is dominant, we're in it now.

Shirlee Engel (24:54.879)
And I guess the thing that really strikes me as a former journalist and I'd love to hear your thoughts about this. What is the place of storytelling in this world where, you know, people who want to succeed on Instagram are told your videos need to be between five and nine seconds and make sure you have your hook at the top. And there is such a structure that especially entrepreneurs are told if they want to, you know,

grow an audience on Instagram that it takes out all of that individuality that intimacy that creativity so where do you see because you are now a consumer the place of really good storytelling on video these days

Kevin Newman (25:35.241)
Well, it won't surprise you that if you are compelling and you have something interesting to say or show, there's very few limits. And I used to fight against this in television, too.

these experts that would come in and say all sound bites are three to four seconds, whatever. mean, you remember we would do whole two and a half minute stories without a narrator of all sound. And they were some of the most compelling stories we ever did. know, so what, what, what these people with rules forget is that you're dealing with a human audience still. And if you can, I mean, that's why podcasting is so incredibly successful because it's the antithesis of all of that.

Right? People like they want nourishment. They crave in this incredibly fast paced life. They crave context. They crave knowledge. They want to spend time with people.

who are passionate about what they're passionate about all those things that you know, the so -called content experts tell you nobody will sit still for people will sit still for if it's done well and if it's compelling so, you know again, you have to give yourself permission that if you are interested and if if if there's a point in the conversation where you lose your interest then that's what you edit out. But if you're locked in and you're not

wavering, keep it going. Right? It's working.

Kevin Newman (27:06.816)
And you don't ever really know how anybody is going to react, you're a pretty good, I mean, as a human being, you're a pretty good judge of what interests you. And ultimately, you know, especially for entrepreneurs or in the media world today, it's your instincts. That's all you got. You can't go and discuss it with a thousand other people or go before a committee. It's just you. And so give yourself permission, I guess is what I'm saying, to if you think something is interesting and compelling, it is, just let it go.

Shirlee Engel (27:34.894)
And I'm fascinated by what you just said, because I remember so much at Global National where we worked. I would be working on a story and there would be a clip and there would be a crucial moment in a story where someone paused for two seconds. And that pause was more powerful than anything they said. But in the edit room, me and the editor are like slicing out the two seconds because that'll make the story 202 and it was supposed to be two and Vancouver's going to kill me. Vancouver being the control room.

where they would get all the stories. But if every story goes over by that long, then the newscast is longer than it's supposed to be. my stories were always long, guys. But it was because I had so much trouble till the very last story I told breaking things down into those soundbites. And I hear this a lot too when I do media coaching and people say, I was in this story, I was interviewed and they...

Kevin Newman (28:10.134)
Yeah. But you were never shy about advocating for it though.

You

Shirlee Engel (28:33.458)
out all the context and they misquoted me. I hear that all the time and we're losing a lot of context but it just means that your message and the way you deliver a story has to be structured in a certain way so that no matter what part they take of it you are going to be conveying what you really need to say right and I love what you said about podcasting because you know this is a nice long medium where things can breathe

and listeners and viewers. And I think this is a big part of why it's successful is because they're allowed to come to their own conclusions. They're not led. And a lot of people, I think, misperceive the media as having this. And I don't like even saying the media because it's not like this big monolithic thing. But a lot of journalists are, you I hear this a lot. They're like, you guys have an agenda. You just, you know what the story is going to be. And you just like make it go in a certain way so that it sounds like that, like.

This is a big perception out there and, you know, I can't speak for all media, obviously, but a lot of times it's just, this is how long it is. This is the structure of the story. But in a podcast, you get to flesh that all out.

Kevin Newman (29:44.812)
Well, no, and you've made an important point as we've been talking, and that's that media piece that a lot of people think is influential really isn't. Hate to say it out loud, but it's not there anymore.

And so, you know, don't worry about it as much as you do. You know, I'm always amazed and you must run across this a lot of, you know, entrepreneurs who, and they come to me too. I've got friends that say, you know, well, can you get me on this show? And like, they want earned media, right? Well, the media is decimated. And so it's really a hard to get on earned media because there's not as many people doing it and there's not as many hours and people are crushingly busy.

it's not as influential as it once was. And so, you know, if you do run into that situation, and you do, where like this poor reporter, and I'll take the reporter side in this, has, you know, it has to file radio, online, television, usually two stories a day. They don't have a lot of time to think.

So it is up to you to come down to your elevator pitch as you said. is the thing that you can develop before they walk in the door that is short, concise, and communicates what you want to say. Rehearse that. And then if you're lucky, you'll get a little bit of context around it. And they may find something that surprised them. But you do need to know going into that interview what your hope is. And don't make it.

Kevin Newman (31:16.446)
So obvious, try to make it as natural as you can, but do have a strategy.

Shirlee Engel (31:20.918)
Mm -hmm, absolutely. And another thing that I like to tell entrepreneurs, which I have to clarify, is fake it till you make it. And I don't mean fake your expertise and your skill and all that. I mean, fake the confidence. And there's a quick story I was dying to tell you, which I don't know if I've ever told you, Kevin, but one of my very first experiences as a very young television reporter in my 20s, and you were the big anchor in Ottawa, and I remember being intimidated like, my God, I'm on this show with Kevin Newman.

And the US Homeland Security Secretary was in town with the Canadian Foreign Affairs Minister or Public Safety Minister. And I was doing a story that nobody was working on. And I was part of the Parliamentary Press Gallery. And there's a bit of a group thing that goes on. We got to ask about, this is the issue of the day or whatever it was. And we were working on a story in our bureau. And I had to get a clip from the Homeland Secretary for this story that no one else was working on.

And I remember going into the press conference thinking, who am I in this room? There were all these greats, these journalism greats. And I plucked myself in the front row of that press conference, cuz I was like, no way am I going back to that newsroom and telling Kevin that I didn't get the clip. I may as well just quit, because he's gonna think I'm just the worst reporter ever. So I sat in the front row and I muscled my way in and asked my question.

And I remember a reporter behind me making some derogatory comments. She asked that? That's such a dumb question. Well, I got the clip and I came back and the secretary only took like three questions and one of them was mine. And the only reason I had the balls to do that was because I was thinking, what would Kevin think if I get back to the studio and I didn't get this clip? So,

Kevin Newman (33:01.505)
good.

Kevin Newman (33:13.432)
So fear is what you're saying, is a good motivator.

Shirlee Engel (33:16.002)
Make it till you make it. I was shaken in my boots that day. But you know what? It's and I tell that story as an example of, you know, as a metaphor for take that leap. Like often I hear from entrepreneurs, well, I don't want to pitch that show or I don't I can't be on that podcast or, you know, I'm not ready to do this. And it doesn't matter how long you've been in business. It doesn't matter. As you said, that hierarchy is gone. So if you have a story to tell,

Kevin Newman (33:19.96)
Well, I mean, I

Shirlee Engel (33:45.718)
Like, nobody's gonna tell it for you. You've gotta advocate for yourself. And the media doesn't care how long you've been doing it. They just want a good story.

Kevin Newman (33:53.75)
No. Is it compelling? And is your story compelling? And I mean, I also find a lot of entrepreneurs, very comfortable talking about what their product will do. Right? And so they're a little nervous about that. But what people actually want to say is, why did you create this product? Why are you so passionate about this? There's all that other stuff that people don't think other people are interested in. But they are.

Shirlee Engel (33:57.356)
Yeah.

Kevin Newman (34:19.754)
And so to your point about storytelling as well, and to add to your idea of like, fake it till you make it, I don't know anybody who doesn't have an imposter syndrome, right? And so you have to recognize that we all feel like imposters.

You know like what am I doing in this room? Why would anybody buy something that I made you know all these very big questions that you have to develop a relationship around and give yourself again permission to say to yourself well because If not me then who? You know it's okay. I'm I'm I'm the person in the moment and and so you know and recognizing that you know

None of us actually believe that we're anywhere near as good as we say we are.

Shirlee Engel (35:07.992)
True, true. And we also underestimate ourselves. We're our own worst enemies. So, you know, a lot of times that fear of putting yourself out there, all you have to do is, you know, just do it and just keep pushing forward for sure. I could keep talking to you all day. I would just love to end on your advice for entrepreneurs who really want to get visible. They want to get out there and they really just...

want to know how to how do they get out there if they've never done this before what advice would you give to someone who who really wants to get started and and and just doesn't really feel like maybe they have that imposter syndrome they they're not ready.

Kevin Newman (35:54.353)
Well, they may not belong in entrepreneurship then. I mean, that may be one way that you delineate whether or not this is for you. I mean, it's not for everybody. It takes a special kind of personality. And I think you have to be the kind of person who doesn't just know they're OK at something, but you do need to project that. And that's sometimes hard for Canadians.

I'll tell one quick story. When I was at ABC on Good Morning America, I got this letter from this Canadian in San Francisco who said, you know, I'm watching you on television and I can tell you're Canadian. And the reason I can tell is because you're not projecting a level of confidence that Americans expect.

And she said, I've learned as a Canadian, I've been down here nine years, that it's not good enough to just believe in something. You have to believe in yourself, and you have to convince others that you believe in yourself. And that doesn't mean you do, but you have to have that ability. And I think that's what all successful entrepreneurs have, is they believe in themselves enough to convince others to believe in them. And if you don't have that quality, then you know.

Maybe it's not for you. And as you know, any entrepreneur knows, it's brutal. You've got to be really frank with yourself and what your abilities are, what your abilities are not. Maybe you have a partner that augments that, but you have to be really, really honest with yourself. And if you are that kind of person, then the way you communicate is probably more honest too.

Shirlee Engel (37:35.494)
Absolutely. That's I love that. That's amazing. And just be your authentic self.

Kevin Newman (37:40.16)
If you can, and you know that one little trick I said about think about who you're going to talk to, who you choose to talk to if you're going to be communicating like this. Who do you imagine you're talking to if you can't, as you and I can, we can't see each other. But I always felt, I always talked to my mother my whole broadcasting career in my head.

I wasn't always talking to her, I was talking to audiences. But my mother was high school educated, but very wise, very smart, very alive. And I felt like if I could write and communicate and make my mother believe something in my head, then I will have made that connection that was the basis of my communication.

My mother passed a number of years ago and I remember I went through a catharsis because I was still on air at the time and I thought like, who am going to talk to now? And I still think of my mother to be honest. But I would suggest that if you do need to communicate before you go on, think about who you really want to convince about the rectitude of what you're trying to tell people.

Connect to the feelings that you're trying to communicate around the words and Find that one person that you really want to convince and imagine that you're always talking to them

Shirlee Engel (38:54.25)
You can still talk to her. You can keep talking to her.

Kevin Newman (38:56.598)
Yeah, yeah, I do.

Shirlee Engel (38:59.714)
Kevin, thank you so much for your time. Is there anything else that you want to say that we didn't cover that you want to leave people with? I miss you too. I can't wait to see you next time you're in Ottawa or maybe we'll meet up in Toronto. I'm so honored that you agreed to come on the podcast, that you wanted to spend this time with us and just really love your insights and continue to follow you on social media. If people want to reach out or what you say, move them, how can they get in touch with you?

Kevin Newman (39:06.028)
I miss you.

Kevin Newman (39:29.944)
Pretty much just Instagram now. I was an early adapter. I'm at Kevin Newman. I got the name. So that's easy to do. But congratulations on like your entrepreneurship. It's not for everybody and you're working really hard at it. I can tell because I follow you on social media. So keep going. I take a little bit of pride in everything you do.

Shirlee Engel (39:41.848)
Thank you.

Shirlee Engel (39:52.738)
I'll try, it's hard, know, entrepreneurship is up and down, but it's conversations like this that really, really help make it fun. So thank you so much for the time. You too.

Kevin Newman (40:01.858)
Take care.